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	<title>Comments on: The Shack</title>
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	<description>Gerry &#038; Sherry Breshears</description>
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		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-946</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 23:35:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-946</guid>
		<description>Good points, Galen. While God has revealed Himself to us, He always is more than what He has revealed. Our common mistakes are when we say He is this to the exclusion of that, when He indicates He is both. So love without justice, holiness without mercy, transcendence without immanence, are common mistakes. The Eastern &quot;solution&quot; is to do theology of negation: God is impassible, infinite, etc., all of which are negations. But even there the mistakes happen. To say God has no passions flies in the face of the passionate LORD of the Bible. So we affirm what He reveals, try to express humbly and responsively and love Him who reveals Himself to us .  .  . and wrestle with what we say about Him. We can&#039;t be silent about the greatness of Him who is our LORD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, Galen. While God has revealed Himself to us, He always is more than what He has revealed. Our common mistakes are when we say He is this to the exclusion of that, when He indicates He is both. So love without justice, holiness without mercy, transcendence without immanence, are common mistakes. The Eastern &#8220;solution&#8221; is to do theology of negation: God is impassible, infinite, etc., all of which are negations. But even there the mistakes happen. To say God has no passions flies in the face of the passionate LORD of the Bible. So we affirm what He reveals, try to express humbly and responsively and love Him who reveals Himself to us .  .  . and wrestle with what we say about Him. We can&#8217;t be silent about the greatness of Him who is our LORD.</p>
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		<title>By: Galen</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-943</link>
		<dc:creator>Galen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 18:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-943</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read &quot;The Shack&quot; and can&#039;t comment there, but speaking of God&#039;s contrasting attributes of nearness and &quot;otherliness&quot; reminded me of a thought that crosses my mind a lot--

No matter how many ways I find to describe God He seems always to be &quot;in between&quot; them all. There&#039;s always more to Him than my words or thoughts can capture. It&#039;s a bit like trying to count the members of a transfinite set. 

No matter how many axes I use to try to measure Him, there always seem to remain an uncountable number of axes orthogonal to all the ones I&#039;ve already found.

My descriptions of Him, though they were all perfectly true and even if I go on with them eternally (believers _will_ praise Him eternally, after all), will always comprise an enumerable set. The real God will always be there in, around, and far beyond all the truth we can ever utter about Him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read &#8220;The Shack&#8221; and can&#8217;t comment there, but speaking of God&#8217;s contrasting attributes of nearness and &#8220;otherliness&#8221; reminded me of a thought that crosses my mind a lot&#8211;</p>
<p>No matter how many ways I find to describe God He seems always to be &#8220;in between&#8221; them all. There&#8217;s always more to Him than my words or thoughts can capture. It&#8217;s a bit like trying to count the members of a transfinite set. </p>
<p>No matter how many axes I use to try to measure Him, there always seem to remain an uncountable number of axes orthogonal to all the ones I&#8217;ve already found.</p>
<p>My descriptions of Him, though they were all perfectly true and even if I go on with them eternally (believers _will_ praise Him eternally, after all), will always comprise an enumerable set. The real God will always be there in, around, and far beyond all the truth we can ever utter about Him.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-908</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 03:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-908</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this lead, Ray. I don&#039;t know the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this lead, Ray. I don&#8217;t know the book.</p>
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		<title>By: ray stone</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>ray stone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 02:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-907</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t read &quot;The Shack&quot; as yet but I&#039;ve read &quot;A Step Into Deliverance&quot; by T. Pugh. It&#039;s a riveting autobiography about a pastor&#039;s journey into the deliverance ministry. There&#039;s no heresy here, just jaw-dropping truth. A real page-turner!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read &#8220;The Shack&#8221; as yet but I&#8217;ve read &#8220;A Step Into Deliverance&#8221; by T. Pugh. It&#8217;s a riveting autobiography about a pastor&#8217;s journey into the deliverance ministry. There&#8217;s no heresy here, just jaw-dropping truth. A real page-turner!!</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 14:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Any thought&#039;s on Mark Driscoll&#039;s criticisms? Is there validity in Mark&#039;s view?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any thought&#8217;s on Mark Driscoll&#8217;s criticisms? Is there validity in Mark&#8217;s view?</p>
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		<title>By: Cal Redmond</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>Cal Redmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 09:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-904</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m looking forward to picking up the book now, but from the discussion, the controversy seems to focus on holding on trying to hold on to both God&#039;s nearness and his involvement in our lives as well as his &quot;otherliness.&quot;  We have to weave these together in our thinking and in our lives.  Right now, I&#039;m preaching through Genesis (still in chapters 1 and 2) at the small church where I serve as a bi-vocational pastor.  I&#039;m both surprised and not surprised at how much I see the link between God as Creator - certainly an example of His &quot;otherliness&quot; - and God as redeemer come through every Sunday.  I can&#039;t preach &quot;Let there be light&quot; without also including 2 Cor 4:6,  &quot;For God, who said, &quot;Let light shine out of darkness,&quot;made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.&quot;

This link between creation and redemption, which I know is not a novel observation, is still powerful. It also seems to me in certain ways a link between the great, world-changing action of God, and God&#039;s action in my own life.  (I know that the scope of God&#039;s redemptive activity is far broader than just my own life, but my life is included within that scope.)  I &quot;get&quot; people who want to stress how &quot;big&quot; God is, His &quot;otherliness,&quot; and sometimes I want to stress that, too, but I can&#039;t leave that without recalling the many times in the Bible and in my own life where God has reached out in significant, small ways to get my attention, to give a blessing to me, to help me to learn.  Some of the unusual little stories of the Old Testament are meaningful to me in the fact that this amazing, powerful, Creator of all things has stopped to touch the lives of people on an individual level.  And that gives me hope that God will continue to reach out to touch me, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to picking up the book now, but from the discussion, the controversy seems to focus on holding on trying to hold on to both God&#8217;s nearness and his involvement in our lives as well as his &#8220;otherliness.&#8221;  We have to weave these together in our thinking and in our lives.  Right now, I&#8217;m preaching through Genesis (still in chapters 1 and 2) at the small church where I serve as a bi-vocational pastor.  I&#8217;m both surprised and not surprised at how much I see the link between God as Creator &#8211; certainly an example of His &#8220;otherliness&#8221; &#8211; and God as redeemer come through every Sunday.  I can&#8217;t preach &#8220;Let there be light&#8221; without also including 2 Cor 4:6,  &#8220;For God, who said, &#8220;Let light shine out of darkness,&#8221;made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.&#8221;</p>
<p>This link between creation and redemption, which I know is not a novel observation, is still powerful. It also seems to me in certain ways a link between the great, world-changing action of God, and God&#8217;s action in my own life.  (I know that the scope of God&#8217;s redemptive activity is far broader than just my own life, but my life is included within that scope.)  I &#8220;get&#8221; people who want to stress how &#8220;big&#8221; God is, His &#8220;otherliness,&#8221; and sometimes I want to stress that, too, but I can&#8217;t leave that without recalling the many times in the Bible and in my own life where God has reached out in significant, small ways to get my attention, to give a blessing to me, to help me to learn.  Some of the unusual little stories of the Old Testament are meaningful to me in the fact that this amazing, powerful, Creator of all things has stopped to touch the lives of people on an individual level.  And that gives me hope that God will continue to reach out to touch me, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Hamel</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-875</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-875</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a former student with fond memories of auditing your systematic theology classes. If you visit my blog and read my page &quot;Stars and Constellations&quot; you&#039;ll see where I&#039;m at now.

I have problems with The Shack, but not for theological reasons. I think it says more about our culture than the Godhead. God has morphed into a black grandmother from a white grandfather. (The Oracle in The Matrix movies was also a black grandmother.)

We want God to draw near and explain life, but he doesn&#039;t often do so. Even Abraham, the Father of the Faithful--not to mention three world religions--only &quot;saw&quot; God about once every twenty years on average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a former student with fond memories of auditing your systematic theology classes. If you visit my blog and read my page &#8220;Stars and Constellations&#8221; you&#8217;ll see where I&#8217;m at now.</p>
<p>I have problems with The Shack, but not for theological reasons. I think it says more about our culture than the Godhead. God has morphed into a black grandmother from a white grandfather. (The Oracle in The Matrix movies was also a black grandmother.)</p>
<p>We want God to draw near and explain life, but he doesn&#8217;t often do so. Even Abraham, the Father of the Faithful&#8211;not to mention three world religions&#8211;only &#8220;saw&#8221; God about once every twenty years on average.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrance</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-873</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:40:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-873</guid>
		<description>Maybe this is comparing apples to oranges?  Dante and Bunyan have impacted lives for centuries.

Perhaps a better comparison would be C. S. Lewis&#039; _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_.  No disrespect to Brian McLaren, Randy Alcorn or Paul Young, but what are the chances that they will still be winning significant numbers of new readers in 50 years?  Or, put another way, what are the chances you personally will re-read _The Shack_ multiple times because you gain something spiritually significant?

Lewis still is read and re-read because the story is magical, the writing is simple, yet profound, the truths powerful, and the imagery (Christ as a lion) has a sort of fit with biblical text.

The current bestseller list (like money making in general) has a way of skewing perspective.  I will be pleasantly surprised if _The Shack_ is still selling well and impacting lives for good in 10 years--not to mention 50 years.  Same with McLaren and Alcorn.  They seem to be more current than have the timelessness of Dante and Bunyan.  History has a way of weeding out the nice and the good from the great.

There is in scripture an astonishing blend of otherness (take off your sandals for you are standing on holy ground; don’t touch the mountain or its base) and closeness (so they saw God, and they ate and drank–Ex. 24:11 and the passage you mention about Abraham feeding the three men and talking with the Lord).  

To focus on one or the other is not of itself a problem--though an implicit denial of one or the other has historically been grounds for deep concern.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe this is comparing apples to oranges?  Dante and Bunyan have impacted lives for centuries.</p>
<p>Perhaps a better comparison would be C. S. Lewis&#8217; _The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe_.  No disrespect to Brian McLaren, Randy Alcorn or Paul Young, but what are the chances that they will still be winning significant numbers of new readers in 50 years?  Or, put another way, what are the chances you personally will re-read _The Shack_ multiple times because you gain something spiritually significant?</p>
<p>Lewis still is read and re-read because the story is magical, the writing is simple, yet profound, the truths powerful, and the imagery (Christ as a lion) has a sort of fit with biblical text.</p>
<p>The current bestseller list (like money making in general) has a way of skewing perspective.  I will be pleasantly surprised if _The Shack_ is still selling well and impacting lives for good in 10 years&#8211;not to mention 50 years.  Same with McLaren and Alcorn.  They seem to be more current than have the timelessness of Dante and Bunyan.  History has a way of weeding out the nice and the good from the great.</p>
<p>There is in scripture an astonishing blend of otherness (take off your sandals for you are standing on holy ground; don’t touch the mountain or its base) and closeness (so they saw God, and they ate and drank–Ex. 24:11 and the passage you mention about Abraham feeding the three men and talking with the Lord).  </p>
<p>To focus on one or the other is not of itself a problem&#8211;though an implicit denial of one or the other has historically been grounds for deep concern.</p>
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		<title>By: Gerry</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-872</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-872</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s true that this is a novel, but it&#039;s also a teaching novel. Like Dante, Bunyan, McLaren, and Alcorn, Paul&#039;s story is &quot;creative nonfiction&quot; to borrow a category from McLaren. Paul himself calls it a true but not factual story. The pictures he paints with his words are matters of truth, and our picture of God is of utmost importance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s true that this is a novel, but it&#8217;s also a teaching novel. Like Dante, Bunyan, McLaren, and Alcorn, Paul&#8217;s story is &#8220;creative nonfiction&#8221; to borrow a category from McLaren. Paul himself calls it a true but not factual story. The pictures he paints with his words are matters of truth, and our picture of God is of utmost importance.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveL</title>
		<link>http://breshears.net/?p=233&#038;cpage=1#comment-871</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://breshears.net/?p=233#comment-871</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Gerry, for putting &quot;The Shack&quot; up for discussion. I appreciate your excellent insights and appeal to Scripture. 

I was well on my way to joining the five-pointers&#039; stampede to diss the novel, and then I listened to a roundtable discussion at Regent (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.regentaudio.com/product_details.php?item_id=801&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;). 

John Stackhouse, a Regent theology prof, was one of the panelists. He begins by emphasizing that &quot;The Shack&quot; is fiction! If you wish, you can read his insightful comments at &lt;a href=&quot;http://stackblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/the-shack-1-in-defense-of-ideological-fiction/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this blog&lt;/a&gt;. 

By the end of the discussion, I&#039;d done a 180! 

&quot;The Shack&quot; is fiction, a novel that re-tells one person&#039;s spiritual journey. In no way does it present a full-orbed systematic view of the Lord God Almighty, nor is it intended too. If it did, it probably (certainly?) wouldn&#039;t be on the NYT Best Seller list. 

I&#039;ve now changed teams and celebrate the unintended consequences: Jesus is back front and center in a fresh new way! Yes. 

PS On a humorous, but telling note, Maudine Fee comments on the Regent panel that she and Gordon, her husband, read through &quot;The Shack&quot; every night before bed, but Gordon kept dozing off. I say, &quot;telling,&quot; because Fee, the brilliant NT Scholar, like many (most?) of us scholastic types don&#039;t get fiction. We — and I include myself here! — are a product of the Enlightenment: we want things screwed down nice and tight, so our first impulse is usually not to fall asleep, but trash it …</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Gerry, for putting &#8220;The Shack&#8221; up for discussion. I appreciate your excellent insights and appeal to Scripture. </p>
<p>I was well on my way to joining the five-pointers&#8217; stampede to diss the novel, and then I listened to a roundtable discussion at Regent (<a href="http://www.regentaudio.com/product_details.php?item_id=801" rel="nofollow">here</a>). </p>
<p>John Stackhouse, a Regent theology prof, was one of the panelists. He begins by emphasizing that &#8220;The Shack&#8221; is fiction! If you wish, you can read his insightful comments at <a href="http://stackblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/the-shack-1-in-defense-of-ideological-fiction/" rel="nofollow">this blog</a>. </p>
<p>By the end of the discussion, I&#8217;d done a 180! </p>
<p>&#8220;The Shack&#8221; is fiction, a novel that re-tells one person&#8217;s spiritual journey. In no way does it present a full-orbed systematic view of the Lord God Almighty, nor is it intended too. If it did, it probably (certainly?) wouldn&#8217;t be on the NYT Best Seller list. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve now changed teams and celebrate the unintended consequences: Jesus is back front and center in a fresh new way! Yes. </p>
<p>PS On a humorous, but telling note, Maudine Fee comments on the Regent panel that she and Gordon, her husband, read through &#8220;The Shack&#8221; every night before bed, but Gordon kept dozing off. I say, &#8220;telling,&#8221; because Fee, the brilliant NT Scholar, like many (most?) of us scholastic types don&#8217;t get fiction. We — and I include myself here! — are a product of the Enlightenment: we want things screwed down nice and tight, so our first impulse is usually not to fall asleep, but trash it …</p>
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