Every marriage has conflict, even mine, where Sherry and I have never fought or raised our voices to each other in 42 years of marriage. We just do conflict in different ways. So what are some basic steps for resolving conflict? The key is to work for partnership in problem solving rather than going into argument to win. The problem is the issue, not the spouse.

Attitude is everything. Throughout this process both spouses should be thinking “What can I give to my spouse?” In arguments, it is how can I win my point. When it is right, then our value and goal is the relationship before the issue.

Commitments as you begin the discussion (from Ephesians 5:22-32; 1 Peter 3:1-7):

Husband: I agree to give myself to my wife as Christ gave himself for the church. Wife: I agree to submit to my husband as unto the lord.

Time outs are to be used for contemplating how to understand each other better (NOT to work on a stronger defense case because that is what happens in arguments).

1. Husband listens to wife

a. Husband’s job is to understand wife (see example of Jesus in the garden at Gethsemane Luke 22:42) by helping her state her case (an active role) remaining engaged, listening non-defensively, asking questions for understanding (not for personal agenda or to make jabs).

b. Wife’s job is to express her wants/feelings with trust in a non-attacking way (to speak honestly but not to overpower or persuade husband to agreement).

c. Husband is to stay with wife with respect (1Peter 3:7) and paraphrase to check for clarity/accuracy of understanding what wife has said. (NOTE: the goal is for the wife to feel heard, understood and cared for by his attentiveness, conduct and understanding).

d. Wife is to speak with a gentle and quiet spirit showing respect for her husband not letting herself give way to fear (1 Peter 3:1-6) (NOTE: the goal is for the husband to feel her submissive spirit, that she genuinely cares for his best as she expresses her feeling and desires).

Sometimes at this point, issues will be resolved simply by husband’s clear understanding of wife. If that is the case, “hooray” and the matter is resolved.

2. Wife listens to husband if the issue remains unresolved, and the roles reverse (all with the same motives, attitudes, conduct, etc.) including additional new instructions.

a. Wife seeks to understand husband without being pushy or critical.

b. Husband states his case, offers his thoughts (including those that are incomplete) and his feelings, and avoids sarcasm and stonewalling.

c. Wife paraphrases and seeks confirmation of understanding.

d. Husband speaks with a respectful and considerate tone.

Sometimes at this point, issues will be resolved when wife understands husband’s perspective. If so, “hooray” and the matter is resolved.

3. Find all areas/aspects of common ground and list them. Both are looking for areas where he/she can move toward the other as they explore the options together is a spirit of love and respect rather than defensiveness or self-protectiveness.

4. If things are still at an impasse and the decision needs to be made, the husband makes recommendation/decision, expressing it with respect and honor and sadness that the process could not achieve resolution, taking responsibility for the decision. The wife submits gently and respectfully and gives her support to her husband. The limitation on her submission is if it were to be directly contrary to God’s scriptural command. If this happens, then they will need to get help from a wise Christian.

I did a lecture on “Why is the Church Responsible for so much Evil?” at Lincoln Berean Church as a part of my spiritual warfare class at Christian Leadership College. In the Q & A time following someone asked about the church affirming life rather than just opposing abortion. In my answer I noted that churches have not supported women who choose to keep their babies. Rather they look down at them and usually refuse to give them a baby shower since they are in sin. I noted with appreciation that many churches have changed and now sponsor showers for women who keep their babies and support them in the difficult task of raising the baby as a single mom.

Then in class today one of the students followed up on this. If we do such baby showers should we also go to a “wedding” or a baby shower for  a lesbian couple. As we thought through this knotty question, I realized I wanted to say both yes and no. “Yes,” because I want a chance to keep relationships where I can speak graciously about Jesus to the couple, but “no” because it would seem I am supporting the rightness of a lesbian family.

She asked where the difference is between a shower for a baby conceived out of wedlock and the lesbian. As I thought I realized that I want to throw the baby shower when the woman has owned that the way the baby was conceived was sinful. I don’t need any groveling or anything like that. But I would have a lot more problem supporting a shower if she refused to acknowledge her sin, if she said “It’s my right to have a baby in any way I want.” In the case of the lesbian wedding or shower that would be the case: “We are doing the right thing for us,” they would say.

I thought further: would Jesus go? He did hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors for sure. But did He affirm their activities? I don’t think so.

Then I compared: would I go to a party for a heterosexual couple celebrating that they were moving in together? Having a baby together? That’s where I realized the issue isn’t the homosexuality, but that they are thumbing their nose at the biblical view of marriage. That I can’t honor. In fact I would more likely to affirm a homosexual couple getting “married.” At least they are expressing commitment in their relationship where the cohabiting couple are denying that.

I wonder if there is a parallel in the situation of 1 Cor. 10:27-28 where Paul tells us to eat whatever is served at a supper, but to refuse if the host said it was offered in sacrifice to idols. The reason is both for the sake of the pagan and for his conscience.

What of love? We are certainly called to love sinners. But love seeks the best of another. Affirming a sinful life isn’t really love.

So I think I’d keep relationship with a lesbian couple, but would not go to the wedding. I’d baby sit their kid, but probably not go to the shower. The difference is that a public act states affirmation where the private act speaks personal support.

So far this is all hypothetical. But I can’t imagine it will be for long.

I am working with two gnarly church/ministry situations. One is a bitter battle between two pastors, both really good men. But there differences erupted a couple of weeks ago and I got the call. I’ve met with them and the other two pastors, who knew nothing of the dispute, amazingly. The second meeting included the four wives, which was a first for them. The wisdom of getting them involved was obvious throughout the meeting. They will tell the church about what is going on, including the lead pastor’s deep confession. I am praying that the church will rise to being trusted as the process goes on. I really believe Acts 15 is the way to do things. Everyone says their piece publicly and with the whole church hearing. It’s messy, but I actually believe it empowers the church to act in grace.

A while back (Oct. 16) I blogged on steps to reconciliation. I’ve been thinking more about it, so I want to revise what I wrote then.

1. Confession: talk about what happened, taking full responsibility for what I have done. The confession is as complete as possible. Other people will need to help the offender in getting his confession straight. When the problem involves deception, getting confirmation from other people or a polygraph may be essential. The confession cannot involve manipulative phrases like “I’m sorry” or “Please forgive me.” That comes later, but at this stage, the others are under heavy pressure to say “It’s OK.” Tiger Woods’ recent apology is an example of a good confession.

2. Compassion. the offender loves the one offended and hears his pain, sharing it as Christ does. He helps the offended one express his hurt and anger with true empathy and care. It is done without any explanations or corrections, no matter how outrageous the angry statements of the offended one may be. Like Job’s comforters, he weeps, shares the dust and agony.

3. Repentance: this is change of values, not just behavior, as we see in passages like Matt. 3:8 and Acts 26:20. For a counter example, think of Jimmy Swaggart weeping away in front of the world and then going right back to his trash. It will take time and perhaps expert help to get to the values behind the behavior.

4. Redemption: The offender comes out of the bad place. That place might be emotional, social, spiritual or physical. It may involve counselors or physicians or pastors to help with the movement.

5. Restitution: What ever was robbed from the offended is returned. It is easy if it is money. If it is honor that was taken, then honor will be returned. It may involve confession/apology to others who were impacted, clearing the name of someone who has been slandared, etc.

6. Reconciliation: clearing up the relational damage done by the sin. It takes time and experience together for this to happen. Hearts must be shared. Normal relationships with trust and openness cannot happen until this occurs.

7. Restoration: this will be through several levels with any kind of leadership occurring only after the trust has been restored. 1 Timothy 5:19-22 is a great passage. Don’t be too quick to entertain either accusation or restoration.

One must NEVER do step 6 before going through the other steps. So often the sinner is really only interested in what minimal steps need to be taken to get back into the place of leadership (see Saul in 1 Samuel 15). There is no basic change. Work through the steps deliberately and carefully.

There is a whole ‘nother blog about the steps of the offended and on forgiveness.

The Haiti pictures are so awful. Destruction everywhere. The odd thing is that this has hit the rich areas as hard as the poor areas. But with the poverty of the whole country the resources are non-existent. So the world will come to help. Christian relief will be there quickly since there is already a lot of mercy work going on.

 

 

 

Here is a note from one of my students about his brother. I found myself picturing what it would have been like to be in their place:

We wanted to send a quick update to friends and family about my brother Joel and his wife Rachel. Some of you may know that they have been living in Haiti since September working with Mennonite Central Committee. They were in Port-au-prince during the earthquake on Tuesday. We got word early in the morning after the quake that they were ok. They were able to call us from the US embassy. The details are sketchy at this point, but we do know that they were in their apartment when the quake hit (they live on the 5th story of a big complex) and the entire building collapsed to the ground. Somehow they survived and crawled out of the rubble during the night and made it to the embassy. Joel had a gash in his head and they both had scrapes and cuts, but it sounds like they are doing ok and were able to connect with some co-workers today. They are trying to find a way out of the country, but we don’t know when this will be possible.

Of course my theologian mind asks, “Where is God in this?” I find the NIV translation of Romans 8:28 correct: “We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him.” God works in contexts like the Haitian earthquake to do His good work. But as I see it, the evil is not His working, Others agree with the NASB translation of Romans 8:28: :We know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God,” This reading is that in an ultimate sense the earthquake is caused by God for His good purposes.

Which ever is the case, may the LORD grant mercy to the people of Haiti as He empowers His people to express their love concretely.

BLOG UPDATE: I just saw the Op-Ed piece in the New York Times entitled “Haiti’s Angry God.” It’s here. The author concludes, “Why, then, turn to a God who seems to be absent at best and vindictive at worst? Haitians don’t have other options. The country has a long legacy of repression and exploitation; international peacekeepers come and go; the earth no longer provides food; jobs almost don’t exist. Perhaps a God who hides is better than nothing.” I pray that the LORD will be very present through the concreteness of His church. It’s just so overwhelming to get help there in time for all the needs.

Bruce & Cindy McMartin, friends and a Western alum, play a big part in ABC News video report here. Pat Robertson talks about a pact with the devil, but when I watch this report of spontaneous worship the YHWH, I find tears coming. It’s just astounding and somehow comforting that these people are so worshipful in the midst of tragedy. Watcht this

I’m in a season of working in reconciliation. I’ve done that for a long time, but it seems to be even more so right now. It’s in marriages, families, and churches. The work is really hard because the hurt and pain is very personal so the emotions are very high. Flight or fight, avoidance or anger are the responses in places of pain. Both ruin relationships. But while the avoidance and anger are present, there is hope. It’s when apathy comes that hope dies.

When there is sustained relational pain, Mary wants Bill (generic names) not just to know, but also to feel, how much she hurts. When Bill believes that Mary is intentional in hurting him, his anger gets savage. It can get overwhelming really fast.

The strategy I follow is to get each to speak their pain, preferably with full emotion, and the other to listen and reflect back. When people feel heard, a major goal is accomplished. The problem is that the second person often listens with denial or even disdain as the first is expressing pain. “It wasn’t like that at all,” is the internal response.

But things get to going well when Bill moves from what’s wrong with Mary to beginning to look at what he has done to damage the relationship. Then Mary feels safer to confess some of her own damaging things. When there’s no safety, Mary’s confession becomes fodder for Bill’s accusations. Mary isn’t about to make herself even more vulnerable in such a situation.

Things begin to go well when Mary begins to express concern for Bill’s pain and Bill can receive that comfort without going into self-protect mode. Then he can reciprocate, feeling safe that she won’t take advantage of his openness to demand more.

One thing I’ve discovered is that people don’t recognize the terrific pain that disrespect or sarcasm cause.  Our culture has lots of stories of the damage anger causes. But there are virtually none for the pain of disrespect. I’m trying to figure some out.

Of course all this is a strange task for me since I have my own failed relationships where there is nothing I can do to promote reconciliation. That is a great sadness, one where much prayer and doing nothing active is the best thing to do, hard as that is. So strange.

On a different note, I have been trying to evict squirrels from my Mt. Tabor house. I blogged my Thanksgiving fall. My still sore leg reminds me to be careful. Yesterday I surveyed the tiny niche beside the chimney where sparrows renew their annual nest. I love the sound of sparrow babies cheeping as parents come with food. Unfortunately, what I saw was the new squirrel chewed entrance to the attic. My ladder wasn’t long enough for safe climbing, so I called my friend Will. He closed up the niche with metal flashing. So neither sparrows nor squirrels have a place. Evil ruins good things.

I am praying for lots of things: reconciliations, Davis house, Christians in Egypt, finances for non-profits, wisdom for leaders, . . .

I find myself increasingly frustrated with the “normal” gospel presentation. It goes something like this: You are a sinner (and I’ll prove it to you), headed to hell. God loves you and Jesus died for you. If you believe in Him, you’ll go to heaven when you die.

Those points are true of course. But they are so incredibly inadequate. There is no basis for living the Christlike life, for example. The result is that people are soon dragged into some sort of duty based moralism: You must obey God’s law to please Him. Get to it! They are often reminded that their hearts are desperately wicked (Jer. 17:9) so the Christlike life is something they won’t like. It’s so sad.

The real Gospel that makes the difference. Here’s how we put it in Vintage Church:

The gospel pattern of Acts 2, as well as of other Scriptures, breaks down into three aspects: (1) Revelation, or what God did; (2) Response, or what we do; and (3) Results, or what God gives. [This outline is from Steve Walker, Redeemer’s, Roseburg]

Revelation: What God Did

Peter begins by affirming that Jesus fulfills the promises of a divine Messiah, God come among us as accredited him by miracles, signs, and wonders (v. 22). Next, Peter declares that Jesus died on the cross according to God’s prophetic purpose (v. 23). Peter proceeds to emphasize the reality that God raised Jesus from death in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy (vv. 24–32). Peter concludes with the final acts of God exalting Jesus to the right hand of the Father and pouring out the Spirit in fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy (vv. 33–35).

Response: What We Do

The first thing we are to do in response to God’s revelation is repent (vv. 36–37). Repentance is the Spirit-empowered acknowledgement of sin that results in a change of mind about who/what is God in my life, what is important, and what is good and bad. This is followed by a change of behavior flowing out of an internal change of values. The second response is to accept the revealed message about Jesus by Spirit-empowered faith (v. 41). Faith means taking God at his word and trusting my life and eternity to the truth of his revelation. All of this is seen in the act of baptism which is the visible expression of our connection with the death and resurrection of Jesus through repentance and faith (vv. 38, 41).

Results: What God Gives

Peter immediately announces the gift of forgiveness of our sins, which is the result of the propitiatory death of Jesus (v. 38). This gift flows into justification, or the imputed righteousness of Jesus. Peter goes on to the second gift, the Holy Spirit and the new heart and new life of Christ (v. 38). This is regeneration, or the imparted righteousness of Jesus, is for living a new life as a Christian with, like, for, to, and by the living Jesus. The third gift is membership in the body of Christ, the new community of the Spirit called the church. This community is a supernatural community where God’s power is seen from miracles and supernatural signs to the sharing of possessions among the community members and giving to all in need (vv. 41–47).

One happy outcome is that it includes resurrection and regeneration means a new heart and the indwelling Holy Spirit. So our deepest desire is to do the Jesus things. And following that desire leads to great happiness and joy.

I teach this version of the Gospel all the time. I was pleased when Tim, a good friend and pastor who just presented this lesson in China. He found great interest in the people there and one man responded by giving his life to Christ. What a happy result!

Sherry and I did our annual football weekend in Kansas City. It used to be a guys weekend, but since Elizabeth came along, Sherry has horned in on the fun. Two years ago Susan had just learned why she was so sick: she was 39 weeks pregnant! A week later, during a routine sonogram, they discovered severe fetal distress so they performed an emergency C-Section only to have Elizabeth aspirate myconium. After three days of wondering if she would live and a month in NICU, she came home.

Now she’s a very normal, totally cute two year old. This picture is as we took her to Toys R Us to pick out her very own baby doll for her second birthday present. She also found a hula hoop and it delighted her, as you can see. Hannah, their German exchange student, also had fun in the store, but no presents. There are more pictures here.

Donn is a faithful Chiefs fan which you have to be this year. They are such a bad team that the Washington coach was demoted when they lost to the Chiefs! Rain was predicted for the game with San Diego, so we took poncho’s. Sure enough SD was romping and stomping as the first sprinkles started toward the end of the first half. The second half opened with a very well executed KC touchdown. But hope was soon dashed with a dumb interception. The rain was pretty steady, and Donn decided it was time for Jack’s Stack ribs!

Cyndee has been up from Cannon Beach, actually taking some vacation. As I went to get her from LeAnn’s place to join us for Halloween weekend, I stopped by friendship park and remembered. So much has changed but the memories are very real. Unfortunately, we had only a tick or treater’s. Our one block dead end street doesn’t draw like our Mt. Tabor neighborhood.

Sunday was preaching Genesis one at FBC Eugene. I presented the interpretation that Moses is describing the preparation of the land, Eden, Israel for human habitation in 6 literal 24 hour days after a beginning in which He created the sun, moon, stars, plants, and animals other than humans. But that will be another post.

I’ve been doing a lot of restoration work in sin contexts with leaders, marriages, and all sorts of situations. As I’ve tried to think of it biblically, I’m trying to put it in steps:

1. Confession: talk about what happened, taking full responsibility for what I have done. Others will need to help in getting that straight. When the problem involves deception, getting confirmation from other people or a polygraph may be essential. The confession cannot involve manipulative phrases like “I’m sorry” or “Please forgive me.” That comes later, but at this stage, the others are under heavy pressure to say “It’s OK.”

2. Repentance: this is change of values, not just behavior. Think of Jimmy Swaggart weeping away in front of the world and then going right back to his trash.

3. Redemption: come out of the bad place. That place might be emotional, social, spiritual or physical. It may involve counselors or physicians or pastors to help with the movement.

4. Restitution: this may be monetary, confession/apology to others, clearing the name of someone who has been slandared, etc.

5. Reconciliation: clearing up the relational damage done by the sin. Normal relationships with trust and openness cannot happen until this occurs.

6. Restoration: this will be through several levels with any kind of leadership occuring only after the trust has been restored. 1 Timothy 5:19-22 is a great passage. Don’t be too quick to entertain either accusation or restoration.

One must NEVER do step 6 before going through the other steps. So often the sinner is really only interested in what minimal steps need to be taken to get back into the place of leadership (see Saul in 1 Samuel 15). There is no basic change. Work through the steps deliberately and carefully.

I’m interested in any suggestions on this process.

It took a total of 75 minutes for the crew to empty our Mt. Tabor home of 24 years of living. It took less than an hour to carry everything into the proper rooms in our new home at 1345 NE Halsey, 97230. Fittingly it took more time to stand and talk while we ate some lunch after the carrying was finished. Merrie and Sherry worked the rest of the day with Sherry to get things in cabinets in the kitchen and bathrooms while I re-constructed our bedroom organizer bed, resizing it for the queen size sleep number mattress coming next week as a gift from Sherry’s Mom. I do miss Peter who could fix anything, inspiring laughter as he worked.

How does one get used a new home? The sounds and smells are so different. Hardwood floors are beautiful, and they speak welcome to me as I walk across them. It feels so far from the bedroom to the family room. Sherry’s sleeping in the huge master bedroom and feels far away from the family room where I’m temporarily computering. At this point we have the whole living room with nothing to go into it.

The family room will be a happy hang out place. The “wilderness view” through the big windows and patio door into the landscaped back yard is delightful. The number of leaves that have already fallen prognosticates much toil ahead. Doubly so, since I’ll be doing the Mt. Tabor house, at least until it gets rented.

It was really helpful that the Comcast cable guy was here as promised. He soon had us connected. TV and internet coming on made me smile. It felt especially connecting when the router displayed the blue light. It signaled our T-Mobile home phone had come up. The flashing red  and I discovered we had a voice mail. The joy faded as I listened to an angry man telling me we can get back at them if I will just . . .  Not sure what the just was because I but some emotion into deleting him and his style of politics.

There are always the lost items: where did my coffee go? I know I had my thermos yesterday, but it apparently has found a new home during the night. There really used to be a remote for the TV in the guest bedroom.

There are the new discoveries: I know we have lots of flowers, but do we really need our very own hive of bees in the tree closest to our wonderful covered deck? My shower felt so good after a very long day of lifting, bending, and shoving. Why did it have to be cut very short by a shrieking smoke alarm in the hall? Hearing the busses a half block away on Halsey only if I listen carefully is a delight after listening to them grind by some fifteen feet from our bedroom. There were a gaggle of 1:00 am sirened police cars on Halsey but I wouldn’t have heard them had I not been making a bathroom trip.

Going back to our nearly empty home was really hard for me. So many powerful memories still live there in the strangely open rooms. The marks on the carpet speak of what was and will be no more. I went slowly up the stairs that often brought happy footsteps signaling the coming of grandgirls and friends. I stood numbed at the door of the “blue bedroom” which started as my study, became bedroom for Donn, Cyndee, and David. Since they went on to their own homes, I’ve prepared it for so many friends, but no more. The little boy sang praise with the little girl in the front bedroom that became a place for children to play and pray. The remains on the floor in so familiar rooms only speak to me of the “no moreness.”

It will be better when we entertain our first guests in the new home. Betcha it’s grandgirls!

Terry Roberts, one of my In Ministry students, who is also a pastor in Spokane, sent me this picture. It’s typical of his great sense of humor, but still thought provoking. He knows tragedy with the seemingly senseless death of his wife a couple of years ago. I heard John Piper illustrate his sermon on Romans 8:32 (He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him give us all things?) by telling of a troubled young mother. As she drove down a Minneapolis freeway she tried to solve her problems by throwing her baby out the window of the speeding automobile. According to Piper, this horrific act is one of the “all things” given as a grace from the Lord. One way to summarize it is that God uses what He hates to accomplish what He loves. Yesterday I was talking with Josh White, a local church planter (Door of Hope). While he was touring with his band, he heard Piper preach at Bethlehem Church. Piper was presenting his view that God does not allow evil but ordains it. This includes moral evil rapes and child abuse. He wondered at the deadness in people’s faces as they nodded assent.

My own “ship” theory is that God is in overall control, but there is a genuine freedom of the creature both in good and bad things. So things happen that are not the will of God, but nothing happens outside the control of God. God is loving enough and powerful enough to do good in the worst situation. While not everything is from God’s purposed will, nothing is beyond His purpose to do good. Mystery: how can God control the big picture and not the details? What good is God going to do in this evil?

A key biblical point is that God is super angry at moral evil. See Deuteronomy 29:24ff or Isaiah 1 for example. There are times when He uses evil to judge evil as in raising the Babylonians to destroy sinful Jerusalem (Habakkuk 1), or in the crucifixion of Jesus, but mostly sin is against His will (though not out of His control) resulting in His wrath.

Another point is the meaning of the word “sovereign.” Many simply assume this term means that God controls everything that happens so that no act occurs without God having a specific purpose for it. Many who take this view think God allows evil rather than actively ordaining it as Piper asserts. But they agree that God is in control of all that happens.

But the Bible never actually says it this way, I think. Rather sovereign means that God does not give account to anyone (Psa. 33:11). No one can stop Him when He decides to act. He does whatever pleases Him (Psa. 115:3), but not everything that happens pleases Him.

One outcome of this is that evil is against the will of God, but not out of His control. When I want to press my point, I assert that there are genuine accidents such as the combination of genes that results in Down syndrome.

This can be very troubling. One student had been pretty comfortable believing that God controlled everything so life would be good based on Jeremiah 29:11: For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. But as he realized that the very people who received this promise suffered horribly in Babylonian captivity, it rocked his confidence that life would be good. When he added in my view that there are events that are against or apart from God’s will, he was visibly distressed. “How can I trust,” he wondered.

I affirmed God’s powerful promise that we need fear no evil because He will be with us in the valley of the shadow of death. He will prepare a table of goodness but it may be in the presence of enemies (Psa. 23:4-5).

I am feeling really connected with the disaster of Typhoon Morakot in Taiwan. It killed hundreds and caused billions of dollars of damages in very poor areas of the island, areas near where Sherry and I have been. People prayed for relief (video here). Do they pray to the God who “smote” them? This is what the New American Standard translation of Romans 8:28 says: we know that God causes all things to work together for good.

Or do they pray to the God who is with them doing good even in disaster He did not will? This is what the NIV translation of Romans 8:28 says: we know that in all things God works for the good.

It is one of those foundational questions that we all answer thoughtfully or reactively. Our answers are only partial because the mystery of evil can never be anything but irrational. The greater mystery of the LORD remains. But He tells us He is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, faithful, loving, forgiving and just in that the guilty never go unpunished (Exodus 34:6-7).

I’m standing there.